Curse

glountz · Nov 23, 2005, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

No flame, only a reply:

1)Ok, that's where your line of arguing is flawed: Yes, of course they can buy a lot of things a casual player can't. But for every sup rune a farmer buys, 3 others of the same kind are brought into the economy by OTHER farmers. You are of course right that farming drives up demand. It WOULD cause inflation if it would happen isolated. But farmers bring a lot more items into the economy then they buy themselves.
------------------------------------------------------------
2)Again, since farmers bring in a LOT more items into the economy than cash drops, there really is no such thing as inflation caused by farming. I don't even see where the so called inflation is supposed to be - prices for items have been DROPPING since quite a while. At least I haven't seen anyone trying to sell a purple item for 10k anymore since quite a while... The only exception to that is the Ecto price.

We won't agree I think

because:

Answer to 1) The balance supply by farmers/demand by farmers is completely flawed. So we have opposite thoughts about this.
A farmer supply less than he demands. As you said yourself as a farmer, you sell Sup vigor runes (for example) to the NPC merchant. You understand what happens then. You don't supply the player's market with this rune, but you still get the money for it ( and the NPC has INFINITE amount of gold - a bucks printing machine). So, your buying power increase, but the demand is still the same. Remember that prices are based on Players trades, not NPC's.
If you didn't drop ectos (as farmers mainly farm for FoW armors), you will be able to buy them from a player since you have so much gold. But you won't supply ectos to the market, as soon as you have one, you keep it for a FoW armor. So ectos prices = Booooom!!
I know myself closely a farmer. He does'nt AT ALL sell sup Vigor/Absorption runes to players. Each time he has one, hop, to the NPC merchant. Why? Because it's a lot of time gained (try to sell a Sup Absorption at its current price, eh, you will stand one hour until someone have the money to buy it to you), and it continues to skyrocket the prices higher and higher by not bringing new supply.

Answer to 2)
Farmers farm for FoW armors. More, Ectos are now a money. A run from Ascalon to Granite Citadel? 1 Ecto. This perfect Fellblade? 80k 3 ectos.
Prices dropped recently. Why? Oh let's see. Because aoe farming was completely tuned down. No more easy invicimonk. Let's see, Monk sup runes were 20k each, just after the patch, only 10k. What a strange thing. You still say that solo farming doesn't inflate the prices. Sorry, but for me, seeing that prices drop so low after a solo farming nerf makes me think the contrary.

glountz · Nov 23, 2005, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm00re

ok I only really had 2 problems with what you said here
each player, from the very first character started out the same, as a lvl 1 in pre-sear ascalon with NOTHING, no gold, no skills, a single weapon, that's it, it is up to YOU to get better items, farm for experience and gold, and then the one that wants to have more and implements that, uses their skills(in most cases) and one chooses not to, why is that everyone else's problem? Why should the group of people that do something about their need for gold be punshed because they do something they want? that last I recall is NOT against the EULA

I won't even answer your sarcasm.

Again, and I hope I will be clear and will not repeat it:
I AM NOT AGAINST FARMERS

.
I farm myself, to earn ALSO some money to have decent equipment.

Besides, it is a debate for or against SOLO-FARMING, not against FARMING ITSELF.
Read me again, I propose solutions to make TEAM FARM more important than SOLO FARMING.
So please don't misunderstand me or make me say what I didn't say.

I don't care about wealthy players.
What I'm against is that farming is a matter of TIME more than a matter of SKILL. The wealthiest players should be the more skilled. That's all.
I have a few time to spend to GW. If i'm more skilled than one harcore player, I want my skill earn more money to me for the same amount of time spent than him.
Since GW seems to put emphasis on teamplay, a skilled team should earn more money/items than a solo noob.

Inflation is a problem for newbies, because with no money they cannot compete with wealthy (but maybe less skilled) player.
A I made several trips with noobs in Kryta with Elite skills/Droks armors, aggroing all monsters thinking they were invincible, dying miserably, and letting the entire team pay for their noobish behavior. Yes, in Kryta, not the worst difficult area of GW.
I even don't speak about twinkers with the same advantages in low levels arena, only because they are wealthy, but unskilled.
But this is antoher story already debated in other threads.

mm00re · Nov 23, 2005, 07:57 PM // 19:57

but I don't see the arguement of time over skill

I can see it taking a LOT more time for a solo player to take out a group of monsters than for a group of 8 going up against the same group of monsters and taking them out in less time.

anet dropped the ball on ALL drops, not just solo players but for everyone.

as for twinked players, i think most people agree there is no reason for them to be bring ing their elite skills into the low level arena's but that get's us off topic.

FFF_WarRaven · Nov 23, 2005, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Balance?...HAHA

KILL THE EBAY SWEAT SHOPS!!!

Make the drops better, i mean i want a max dmg 15^50 chaos axe, but most people are asking 100k and like anywhere from 30 to 60 or more ectos.....more than the cost of fissure armor, nvm trying to farm ecto solo or other wise.

"Want" and "Need" go hand in hand as much as they are different.

SOLO FARMER = TREASURE HUNTER.
GROUP FARMING = SEVERAL TREASURE HUNTERS.

THE GODS GAVE US THE FAVOR AND THE DEVS TAKE IT AWAY!!!

does korea realy pay to play gw? does that effect us game wide? do the international districts have these problems? Japan is having a closed beta soon, i'm guessing, that might change the economy when it releases??

shrugs, why wern't the "things" that were not meant to happen in the first place, thought about before release? wtf did all thoses beta testers tell you?
were they all 12 year olds, or all adults? blab blab blab.......

Here timmy, here's 5$ for icecream, but you can only use 25 cents of it....
oh, im sorry honey, you just have to get used to it..blabblab...mind games?

Hey dude, here's a keg of beer, but it's now non-alcoholic....

In a player driven economy, why do i feel someone else is drivng my taxi?

I could go on and on, for both sides, but its just a rehash of all the other pages...blahhh

Xmas is comming soon, lots of new games comming out....hmmmm

:::End Transmission:::

Pandora's box · Nov 23, 2005, 08:49 PM // 20:49

glountz:

This is a debate about the pro's and cons of solo farming. This is not the place to bring ideas for nerfing.

About your arguments:

1. The point? Does it affect you in any way when people you dont even know don't play in a team?
2. An old one but completely irrelevant. You know the game of chess? If you have a board and pieces, should you only use it to play according the rules? No variations like Can-I?, 2-move chess, give-all-away? Owning a game does not mean you need to play it the way its meant to be. And computergames change more often during gameplay than board games. But again, how does it affect you if someone plays differendly, someone you never met and probably never will meet?
3. Spend some time in trading places. You will mostly be able to get what you want for prices between 5k-20k. And than I'm talking about green items. Is that so much? The only exeptions I see are the high level absorbtion runes, but they were expensive from scratch. I don't see how solo farming at this moment affects the game in a negative way. You state that poor players dont have the time to solo?? But than I wonder whats the problem you have with it. Because having time or not is a completely differend issue...

Ensign · Nov 23, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

There really isn't a problem with soloing, in fact back during E34E there weren't "Explorable Areas", but "Solo Areas". Being able to run around by yourself was intended and encouraged.

I do think there are issues with current solo farming though. Specifically, that players can solo high level, 6 or 8 man instances quickly, and that this sort of gameplay is much more 'rewarding' in game, in terms of loot and XP, than teaming up with other players.

I'm a student of game design and am always trying to figure out what makes a good game tick (or fail to, as the case may be). The specific issues Guild Wars has that I've recognized:

Regarding ability to solo farm, the biggest problem is degenerate mob design. Every single area being seriously solo farmed has the exact same problem - masses of identical enemies employing the same tactics and skills. From Gypsy Ettins to Caromi Tengu Elites to Desert Minotaurs to Griffons to Hydras to Mountain Trolls to Tundra Giants to Flesh Golems, every single case has a player running a build designed specifically to hate out the tactics and skills of a certain enemy, then pushing that hate to the extreme to handle as many enemies of a specific type as possible.

The Underworld was (and perhaps still is, I haven't been there in a while) a gross extension of this problem - you have huge swaths of degenerate enemy types. It was begging to be hated out and solo farmed, and it was. Contrast the Underworld with the Fissure of Woe - at least in the entry area, every mob has multiple creature types with different skills and tactics, making it nigh-impossible to solo. Indeed every serious effort to solo in the Fissure of Woe that I know of involves *running past* these mobs to get to the degenerate mobs deeper in the instance.

Lazy mob design is the biggest issue for soloing, and the first thing they need to address if they want to attack the problem. Not that there aren't problematic skills, such as Protective Spirit or Kinetic Armor - but those are merely symptoms. Against mixed mobs, most of these solo characters get destroyed utterly.

AI abuse can also be a symptom, or a bigger issue. Specific abuses need to be looked at on a case by case basis.

The *desire* to solo farm is a bigger issue in my mind. Not that people wanting to run around solo is a bad thing, I think most people are in the mood for that on occasion. The problem is that soloing is the fastest and most profitable way to gain XP and wealth - and that needs to be addressed.

The biggest issue here is division, really. As you add more players to a group, the loot and XP keeps getting increasingly diluted as the pool never grows, things only get divided further. On the flip side, the killing power of a group does not grow proportionally. Not only does an 8 man group not kill mobs twice as fast as a 4 man group, but the time spent running between mobs is not scaled at all. When you take all of that into account you're in this situation where groups really want to run with as few players as possible to enter whatever area, because every additional player is just going to drag down the rewards for everyone else. This is a Bad Thing.

I think you have to address this problem from two different angles. First, while the per-player loot and XP are going to need to decrease with each additional player in the group (to avoid 'dummy player' exploits), it simply cannot decrease as quickly as it does. A simple model is to add 50% more XP and loot to each monster for each person in the group, then divide it evenly on the kill. In that case, running around in a group of 8 will give each player roughly 50% of the reward per kill that he'd get soloing it - but he should be gaining wealth much faster due to killing speed. Now that model is a bit too high, a stronger one is 50% more loot for the second player and 25% more loot for each additional player - and you can keep getting more complex from there - but the point remains. Loot needs to scale up to encourage grouping for farming.

The other is through quest rewards. Right now there's very little incentive to re-play a mission you've already completed - you don't get another skill point, and you don't even get the 1000 XP again, as little as that is. People want wealth from completing missions and quests, and the game should deliver. I think the Kilroy Stonekin Sorrow's Furnace mission is a good starting point for this - throughout the mission he'll hand out three chests full of purples. Not that purples are valuable, but the idea is the same - give people loot, and lots of it, for going on and completing missions. If missions gave out a gold every time you completed them, you'd see packed districts of people looking for groups to complete missions quickly and efficiently, which is exactly what you want.

Most of these things can still be addressed, though some would require pretty radical shifts to the way the game is designed. Still, if they want PvE to reward grouping and discourage, not *prohibit* solo farming, the above is a good outline of the steps they need to take.

Peace,
-CxE

kvndoom · Nov 24, 2005, 12:23 AM // 00:23

Yeah, I'd be all for groups if I knew I could get as much reward regardless of the group size. Drops shouldn't "time out" so that after 5 minutes anybody can get it. That'll prevent drop-out exploits. And if the person drops out, his unclaimed loot disappears, and the loot algorithm adjusts to the new group size.

Group farming can really encourage teamwork and be good practice. But as Ensign said, there HAS to be an incentive for farming with large groups. I'm sorry but if I can make 5k in an hour by myself, why get in a 6-man group and make less than 1k for the same amount of work and time? A 6-man group doesn't kill 6 times faster. A lot of times a large group takes longer because when you solo all enemies attack just you and that makes them more accessible. But I consider the game broken as it is now. No incentive for grouping, but no love for soloing.

twicky_kid · Nov 24, 2005, 01:19 AM // 01:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Regarding ability to solo farm, the biggest problem is degenerate mob design. Every single area being seriously solo farmed has the exact same problem - masses of identical enemies employing the same tactics and skills. From Gypsy Ettins to Caromi Tengu Elites to Desert Minotaurs to Griffons to Hydras to Mountain Trolls to Tundra Giants to Flesh Golems, every single case has a player running a build designed specifically to hate out the tactics and skills of a certain enemy, then pushing that hate to the extreme to handle as many enemies of a specific type as possible.

The Underworld was (and perhaps still is, I haven't been there in a while) a gross extension of this problem - you have huge swaths of degenerate enemy types. It was begging to be hated out and solo farmed, and it was. Contrast the Underworld with the Fissure of Woe - at least in the entry area, every mob has multiple creature types with different skills and tactics, making it nigh-impossible to solo. Indeed every serious effort to solo in the Fissure of Woe that I know of involves *running past* these mobs to get to the degenerate mobs deeper in the instance.

Lazy mob design is the biggest issue for soloing, and the first thing they need to address if they want to attack the problem. Not that there aren't problematic skills, such as Protective Spirit or Kinetic Armor - but those are merely symptoms. Against mixed mobs, most of these solo characters get destroyed utterly.

AI abuse can also be a symptom, or a bigger issue. Specific abuses need to be looked at on a case by case basis.

this is the absolute truth and a fix in itself. add a mes and monk to every group, instead of having 15 warrior types in one area, would destroy anything trying to solo that area. they did add the little guy to UW but gave him a 3 second cast spell. now we just use power drain to interrupt him. maybe they should give him glyph of renewal. interrupt the glyph or the rend either way you're screwed.

i also suggested the drops be increase for party sizes. didn't think of a scale to base it on as you did but i like what you said. soloing should be for challenge not profit (the only profit at that).

good to see another game designer here

haven't quite figured out where i want to fit in the industry but AI has sparked my interest.

Hanuman li Tosh · Nov 24, 2005, 01:42 AM // 01:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm00re

and if you look at the words used, it doesn't seem to HER that solo farming should be there, not ANET feels farming high level areas is NOT going to be allowed.

I wish for the final time, ANET come right out and say what your official position is on this subject so this can end this debate.

I am sick of this.

Gee, Gaile Gray is the OFFICIAL anet rep. what do you want, a halftime show?

Hanuman li Tosh · Nov 24, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Well dude I can "solo-farm" lvl 8 Charr without a "farming" build that what I am trying to make you see. Your statments about solo-farming not being anywhere are unrealistic. What about pre-sear do you draw the line there?

Besides soloing isn't impossilble without a solo-farm build. Heres a story I have for you.

I was with 5 other rangers in a The Wilds mission one was able to heal a bit but still healing wasn't really there. Near the end of the mission all the rangers died and I was left to fight off these 3 lvl 17 spiders with my lvl 16 W/Mo

.....

I ran away and decided to heal myself up. I went around and tryed to res as many rangers as I could without agroing the Spiders. I resed 2 then the spiders attacked. Thanks to DP the rangers died in 2 seconds.....I said screw it and charged after the spiders. I kill one and kept myself alive I use healing breeze andI managed to kill them all

. We won the mission.

I also I know some builds for Nercos, Elementists and Rangers.

Elementist: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=80332

Nerco: Get all the stuff the 55 monk has and then add Aura of the Lich to make the super cheap 27 nerco

Ranger: I forget the link there was a solo trap build for UW.

I might also add warriors now seem to be the only ones who can't do UW farming so mybe they are the ones who are the most misfuntuate.

your point is garbage. if you solo farm char how much loot are you going to get? you will get much less than if you play the game thru, so why would you solo farm to get less money than you would by playing thru? that makes no sense at all.

merciless · Nov 24, 2005, 01:50 AM // 01:50

I am for solo-farming because it helps me make gold fast.
If solo farming was nerfed... umm there would be those rich people that started early with full fow armor, amazing rare items etc. etc. and then those that are fairly new with nothing. The new/fairly-new people would probably be poor compared to those that started the game early, and would stay poor for a very long time (poor forever, for casual gamers).

Umm, yeah, sounds fair? *Sarcasm* -_-'

Hanuman li Tosh · Nov 24, 2005, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by merciless

I am for solo-farming because it helps me make gold fast.
If solo farming was nerfed... umm there would be those rich people that started early with full fow armor, amazing rare items etc. etc. and then those that are fairly new with nothing. The new/fairly-new people would probably be poor compared to those that started the game early, and would stay poor for a very long time (poor forever, for casual gamers).

Umm, yeah, sounds fair? -_-'

um, what do you mean by fair? droks armor is as good as bling armor in stats and you dont need uber items to succeed in GW, you need skill. so if you buy the game with the intent to hoard money expect what comes with that (grind).

merciless · Nov 24, 2005, 02:33 AM // 02:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

um, what do you mean by fair? droks armor is as good as bling armor in stats and you dont need uber items to succeed in GW, you need skill. so if you buy the game with the intent to hoard money expect what comes with that (grind).

BUT I NEED THE BLING!!!!!1 OMFG IT LOOKS SO COOL 15k ARM
And, yeah that is what I do... grind!(Which I love doing)

I just wouldn't find it fair if other grinding farmers have FoW armor+bling-bling etc, and I don't because of a solo-nerf. So, that is why I am for solo-farming; so that I can get FoW armor+bling-bling etc.

By the way, you are off topic lol! Pwnt! -_- im joking. But yeah, you are off topic.

Banebow · Nov 24, 2005, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Since most of the folks here are not saying nerf solo farming per say, but rather increase party drops. . .what is your point?

Guardian of the Light · Nov 24, 2005, 02:39 AM // 02:39

I've seen a few good arguements here but a few are not exactly correct in relation to facts

"Farmers just sell materials to NPCs who have an infinite amount of gold"

Yes for merchants this is true. But for traders like the material and Dye trader this is NOT. Traders only will sell items that they get from players. If one farmer just wants to buy some steel igots and buys them clean from the trader then all the people will notice prices have increased when they buy or sell to the trader for stell igots. Almost instantly everyone whos smart will sell thir Steel igots till prices flatten again.

However Prices will decrease on items farmers can farm but not the ones they can't farm (such as runes). This is why Superior absorbtion is so expensive however it is not long before a farmer finds another Rune farming place and there are already some spots like nobo Tarrance.

"There are no team-farming spots so solo-farming is the only way."

Not true at all the great sorrow's furance is the famous spot filled with expensive items know as the greens. I'm probably going to go myself if they act on solo-farming. The Sorrow's Furance is the only area which is unsoloable and the greens are very valueable inside the furance.

Quote:

My 2 cents.

I'm against solo farming. Not against solo-farmers (and keep this in mind before any flaming).
I will try to be clear, sorry if i'm not, I'm not an english native speaker.

1) Solo farming does not enhance teamplay.
As said and ackowledged before, I won't add something on this.

2)Solo farming is not the game purpose.
I am a casual player. When I bought the game, one of the ad which attracted me was : "GUild Wars, the only MMORPG where skill is more important than time played". With solo farming, time is more important than skill, even if it requires some for sure. And solo farming will bring really more gold to an hardcore gamer than a casual player. And more gold means more advantages (You will be able to pay to run your other low level characters to Droknar, then pay them the best armors/items/skills, then bring them in low level areas to farm faction points for PVP by twinking). I second Banebow on the issue of wealth against time.

3) Solo farming ruins the economy.
And in a very twisted way. Monica Angelina told us the classical economy speech on supply/demand. I agree, solo farmers will bring more items to the market, so supply will be higher, so prices should be kept low. The only missed point is that solo farmers will be able to BUY a lot more than casual players. By solo farming, you will have enough gold to buy that ---- Sup absorption rune thaht didn't drop. Making prices jump higher. Solo farming not only adds to the supply, it adds also to the demand because of the rarity of some items and the ability of the solo farmers (or ebayers) to pay high prices for these items. It's not controlled because as you farm, you CREATE gold from monsters, feeding indeed an incredible inflation (by injection of new gold). It's like the Guild wars government was printing bucks ever and ever.
The issue, however, is not the inflation "itself", it's the wealth distribution. The issue is that the "GW government" is not creating gold for EVERY player in the game. Only the solo farmers will benefit of these gold coins spawning again and again. So what ? Well, casual players can't follow the inflation. Only farmers can. Solo farming is not "ruining" economy for every player, but it separates wealthy players (who have the time to solo farm) and poor players (who don't have time for that). It's like, creating a gap wider and wider between hardcore gamers and casual gamers/questers/roleplayers.
Personally, I solo farm. I hate it. But I need it to buy my low level characters decent equipment so they will be able to compete with low level other characters.
And what's the point ? I am a casual player, I paid the same price for the game than that harcore gamer. For a game said to have an emphasis on skill, I find difficult to accept that because this guy has more time played he will have a better (or better looking) equipment/skill. Yes, skill also, because when you are wealthy, you switch your secondary profession and buy/unlock all the skills for PVP.
I will never have a FoW armor. I left the idea. I can't spend a whole weekend solofarm the UW, to have this ----ed ectos.

4) Solution to nerf solo farming.
I think the problem with solo farming is that it is more profitable than team farming.

- My idea would be to have the number of monsters you encounter directly proportional to the number of the party members.
-Example:
1 guy, 2 monsters in a group.
2 Players, 4 monsters/group. Sometimes a boss.
4 Players, 7 monsters in a group, one boss, more groups on the map.
8 Players, 10 monsters in a group, several bosses in a group, bosses with higher levels. Map filled with mobs hordes.
Henchies do not count as a player for monsters number, but for items, yes.
The monsters would be varied (the less party member there is, the most varied it should be -enchantment/stance stripper should be a lot more numerous). Do not fill the map with only one kind of creature, because if you do so, you can farm it with a creature-specific counter build. Bosses from different profession is one way to go.

-Expected effects:
Yes why do that? With low numbers of monsters, solo farming will be a lot more easier!
Okay I explain:
- Some of the solo farmers are doing it for the challenge, not for gold. I highly respect that. That is I think the main purpose of this game, and it is a shame that you have more challenge by soloing than by teamplaying in PVE.
I don't want them to be taken out this challenge. Here, the thing is that teamplay farming will give a lot more challenge than solo playing. If you go outside with nobody else but you, you will encounter only few guys, so no more challenge, easy fight. Solo challengers will be forced to ally with other if they want real challenge, thus enhancing teamplay, friends, community soliarity etc...
- More monsters=More drops. By now, solo farming is done because there is a lot of monsters to kill, being 2,4,8 members doesn't matter, worst, the more you are, the less you can expect from drops. If there is too few monsters, you will have to travel all over the map (with a few kills only for a long trip). So to solo farm, you will have to take a veeeeery long time to clear the map (so the balance wealth:time will be completely nerfed, and it is one of the main point as explained Banebow). The point is that team farming will be a lot more profitable (with bosses who drops more items (generally rare in addition), and faster. And challenging.
- Explorers who like to cover all the map and admire the beautiful virtual landscapes will be able to do that without problems, as they will encounter few monsters. The trips through Tyria only for fun will be a lot more numerous and quiet.
-As you will need a team to farm, there will be a need for players. Even casual players will be able to play some time with harcore farmers, having drops for them, a good team play, maybe a bit of role playing, the same amount of gold than others, and enhancing challenge, solidarity etc.....

I know there is problems in that and it won't solve the inflation. But it was just a thought.

1.Why does the game have to be ALL teamwork

2. Guild Wars purpose is like all purposes its to have fun. But Solo-farming reduces time send on getting gold and items providing anyone with the gold the items. This balance of Supply and Demand allows farmers to get the items they want without hurting the ecomony. True only farmers benifit from this but it doesn't hurt anyone in the process.

3. Like I said before NO IT DOESN'T

4. Not bad item however it doesn't work when you consider henchies in the equation. If you don't put henchies into the equation then certain maps would become WAY too easy. If you put henchies into the equation then farmer will lead henchies in, create a situation in which henchies will die but not the farmer, farm the mass amount of monesters they encounter.

This also would be a pain in the --- for programers.

The REAL problems with solo-farming!

Problem: The 55 monk is too cheap and it is a bit too cheap and should be weakened.

Solution: Create a Minumuim health limit when Dp and Runes are calculated.

Problem: There are any really good rune farming spots which make the prices for runes to go up.

Solution: Make Mintour Hides able to hold runes.

prowler · Nov 24, 2005, 02:49 AM // 02:49

i've never cared muhc for farming. In fact its a skill I tired it and couldn't do it. Mainly because the runes cost 50000g. so I'd have to call it a skill. But then again I don't think anet shoudl take control of the game like this. Several atgmes turned dead because of things like that. Just get you gold the way you want. It don't matter

Sayshina · Nov 24, 2005, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

Gee, Gaile Gray is the OFFICIAL anet rep. what do you want, a halftime show?

Before getting to the rest of what I have to say, I feel the need to point this out: While Gaile Gray might have official standing as an employee, she does not necessarily speak for Anet on every occasion.

Even White House press secretaries have been known to speak their minds and not ALWAYS represent the administration they serve.

I have said this before, but it is as true now as ever, Gaile Gray is the single worst CSR I have ever come in contact with. If she said it was raining outside, I'd go out and check for myself, and I live 12 miles away from Anet. I don't actualy think she intended to create the great PvP vs. PvE mess we had a few months ago, but it was her job to deal with it, and preferably work it out. She certainly did NOT do that.

Many companies, perhaps more than half, have either intentionaly or accidentaly kept their CSR's in the dark as to their real intentions. CSR's are not really staff, in most companies nobody even asks them for their opinion. They're sales people, and if you want to get right down to it, they're RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs. If they get a job at a rap radio station, even if they're hated rap their entire lives, suddenly they love it. I wouldn't take Ms. Gray's word for much.

Does Anet hate farming? Instead of trying to read their words as though you were reading the Torah, how about looking at what they do? Do they continue to nerf the skills, areas and mechanics used in farming? Well then, you have your answer.

As long as they hate it, it really doesn't matter if 90% of the rest of you want it to stay. There will be future nerfs coming. I'd commiserate, but when it was the PvP community getting screwed you all kept telling us to shut up and go away. So frankly, if you don't like the farming nerfs, go find some other game.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 24, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Well I have sent a personal message to Galie dealing with this issue. If were luckey she hasn't been spammed by echo-nukers and we will get a direct opinion from her and she should clear things up for us.

Guardian of the Light · Nov 24, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hanuman li Tosh

your point is garbage. if you solo farm char how much loot are you going to get? you will get much less than if you play the game thru, so why would you solo farm to get less money than you would by playing thru? that makes no sense at all.

I said that to make twicky_kid relieze what he was saying when he said Solo-farming should be nowhere including the extremely low lvl charr.

I also farmed Charr when it was halloween and got a lot of Charr carvings to trade for halloween stuff

. That was just an example.

Banebow · Nov 24, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Problem: The 55 monk is too cheap and it is a bit too cheap and should be weakened.

The 55 monk was innovative, not cheap. Heck, when you get down to it, the echo nuker was innovative. But guess what? The build got out into the open. Suddenly, everyone and his grandmother who had a monk was doing the solo monk. A few exceptions, yes, just as not all eles were echo nukers. Now, people call it a "newb build" because it is common. If a solo mesmer build came up tomorrow, one that could solo any area in the game, people would call it innovative. Two months from now it would be a newb build.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian of the Light

Problem: There are any really good rune farming spots which make the prices for runes to go up.

Underworld is a great place to farm ectoplasms. Now, go check the price of ectoplasms. Things in demand go up in price until the supply meets the demand. It is near-impossible to meet the demand for ectoplasms, and a similar situation would come about with runes.

The real problem is that so many people are calling for a nerf. Be it to underworld farming or just to solo farming in general. This is the completely wrong approach. We all play guild wars. We play it differently, and that is not a problem (people can have fun how they choose). As others have pointed out, and I have repeated many times, the problem lies in the wealth:time ratio that the two groups of players have to deal with.